You Bet Your Garden S4 Ep36 Plants for the Birds

From the bird-loving studios of Univest at Lehigh Valley Public Media in Bethlehem, PA, it is time for another episode of chemical-free horticultural high jinks, You Bet Your Garden.

Have the news stories about the avian flu outbreaks led you to follow our advice to take down your bird feeders?

I'm your host, Mike McGrath, and on today's show, we'll reveal how to avoid any disease issues caused by overcrowding, by growing the plants that birds love best.

Otherwise, it's a fabulous phone call show, cats and kittens.

So we will take that heaping helping of your telecommunicated questions, comments, tips, tricks, suggestions and appropriately antagonistic assertations.

So keep your eyes and/or ears right here, true believers, because it's all coming up faster than you having a bevy of birds, right after this.

Kane, welcome to You Bet Your Garden.

- Thank you, Mike.

I'm Kane, I'm from northern New Jersey, in the town of Vernon, which is just below Warwick, New York.

- Oh, OK, right, in that beautiful industrial area there.

- It's pretty much still farmland, but we're on the eastern part of Sussex County.

- Gotcha, gotcha.

All right, Kane, what can we do you for?

- Well, I have a friend that I was speaking with on Facebook, she is located in Pike County, around Dingmans, and the question that she popped up was, is it time to treat for mosquitoes?

She has a pond, I'm really not familiar with it, but apparently it has an end that's deeper than the other one.

I suggested the doughnuts, and she said, well, we use them, but it's too cold on the one end if I throw them in, the bacteria is released and then they die and they're thermally affected.

I looked on my packet of doughnuts and I don't see anything, so I figured if I went to the guru, I'd find out what the truth is.

- And you couldn't get him on the phone, so I was next, right?

- Right!

- BTI stands for Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis.

(HEAVY BREATHING) Is that you?

Are you breathing into the phone?

- No, that may be a little bit...

It might be a little bit of wind, I'm outside.

- OK. OK, BTI, bacillus thuringiensis israelensis, because it is a strain of BT that was discovered in Israel, on a cat's paw, of all things.

It doesn't affect any other wildlife, but when it is placed in standing water, any female mosquito who deposits her eggs in that water will be wasting her time because the eggs are not going to hatch.

So, it was a tremendous achievement in organic pest control.

I use both the granules and it comes in the form of the dunks.

And my advice actually was for people to start using it, you know, really right now, it's not that late, I haven't seen a lot of larva around.

Because what you want to do is you want to knock down that first generation.

And when you knock down that first generation, you know, normally, the female mosquitoes are hibernating now and they're like, really hibernating, it's like one heartbeat a day, they're living off the last blood meal they got in the fall.

And when that when they awake and come out of hibernation, they are desperate.

So they'll take the first meal they can, whether it's you, me, a chicken, a horse.

And then they'll lay their eggs and promptly die.

Well, so will the eggs.

- So, the temperature really doesn't matter?

- I've never heard that before.

- OK.

Appreciate it.

- My thing is always get ahead of it.

Get ahead of it and get that first generation.

Then you can stop earlier.

- Great.

Thank you very much for your help, sir.

- All right, good luck to you, Kane.

- Yep, and I had the pleasure of meeting you a couple of years ago at the Philly Flower Show.

- Oh!

- I don't miss a single episode, so thanks again.

- OK, well, we're back outside in Roosevelt Park this June, so come and see us again.

- Maybe see you!

OK, take care.

- Bye-bye.

- Bye-bye.

Number to call... Ali, welcome to You Bet Your Garden.

- Hi, Mike, how's Ducky?

- Oh, Ducky had to put his mask back on.

We're not in Philadelphia proper, but we're close enough and the numbers are scaring me a little bit, so Ducky polls the protection up because it doesn't hurt him, but it could save lives.

Hey, especially with the avian flu.

Now, that's, you know, good duck.

How are you, Ali?

- I'm very well, thank you, Mike.

- And where?

- I'm in Thousand Oaks, California.

- Oh, I know Thousand Oaks very well.

What can we do you for?

Well, I'm a first-time gardener and I bought your book on growing tomatoes.

- Good, good.

Kerching!

- Yeah!

I'm going all organic and I started seeds, organic seeds, and everything up until when I got my first true leaves, everything was great when I got my first true leaves.

In addition - let me back up - in addition to my tomatoes, I'm growing some eggplants and peppers.

The tomatoes are classic beefsteak, big rainbow, Brandywine, black Krim.

Eggplants, Ping Tung, real black, Chinese string.

And then the peppers, Buena Mulata and Korean dark green.

- Mmm-hmm.

- So, when I started fertilizing... - With?

- With the Neptune's seaweed and kelp.

Sorry, seaweed and, what's the other one?

- Fish.

- Fish, right.

- That's an excellent fertilizer.

- Yeah.

And I did it, taking your advice.

So I started fertilizing with that.

The plants were going up well and then, when the classic beefsteaks got to about four to five inches, the leaves started rolling.

They started folding in half and I didn't know what was going on.

I suspected a disease because I used some home-made compost, I wasn't sure if that home-made compost was sterile.

It was my first time composting.

- Compost should be the opposite of sterile, compost needs... Well, doesn't need to be, but should be full of life and microorganisms.

It's the seed-starting mix that you use that should be quote, "a sterile soil mix."

- OK, got it.

And I mixed my own soil mix from all organic ingredients, vermiculite, perlite and... - Peat?

- Vermiculite, perlite and peat moss, that's correct.

- Mmm-hmm.

- So, yeah, and once I started fertilizing, everything was going well and then the leaves started rolling, and then I started inspecting the leaves a little more closely and then I noticed that I was seeing these little white gap spots... - Yep!

- ..on the eggplants.

And I thought there were just some residue of some kind, but I hadn't inspected them that closely, and then, sure enough, when I got really up close, I started seeing these...

They look like flies of some type.

- Yes, they are.

You almost diagnosed it with your language.

They're called leaf rollers.

And what they do is they roll up the leaf around themselves so that they can feed undetected.

They're not fatal at all.

How do the plants look otherwise?

- Otherwise, the tomatoes were growing great.

Everything, you know, they're...

I'm seeing the length go higher and higher.

They're doing well, except the they're growing with the leaves rolled up.

- Right.

What's the weather like where you are?

- More on the dry side.

- Well, duh!

- I think we're in zone nine, eight or nine.

- OK.

So, are your plants outside?

- Well, no, this is all happening under grow lights.

I started hardening them off and then, you know, with the 30 minutes, one day, up to an hour, and then I went up to an hour and a half, so I've been hardening them off.

- OK. - And right now, I did put some in the ground.

- Really?

OK. - Yeah, I planted them because the beefsteaks were close to eight or nine inches.

- I was going to say, and you're familiar with the final height of these plants?

- I'm guessing it's going to be about 14 feet?

- Yeah, something like that.

OK, so here's... - And I'm prepared to cage them as well.

- Oh, well, you'd better.

Or else your snails will get them all.

So, what I'm thinking here is, first of all, you're at about 94, 95.

It sounds like you've done a lot of things right, but these pests can come in on your home-made compost or they're kind of ubiquitous, you know, they can just come in with you, when you bring the groceries home.

So, get a good, brand-new sprayer, where you can adjust the nozzle, and I want you to spray each of the plants.

If the leaf is rolled up, try to open it up as best you can and blast the suckers out.

And if you want to try something other than that, you could do the same thing with insecticidal soap or neem oil.

But I predict you're going to do good.

- I did that too, Mike.

I did the neem oil.

Organic neem oil.

I did that and I started seeing some good effects.

But this is, to top everything I've done, I also suspected overfertilization.

- Yeah.

- Because this wasn't happening to all the plants, because I was fertilizing full strength with the Neptune's.

- Oh, no!

- So, yeah.

- Oh, wow, baby doll!

Oh, that's like steroids.

- Now, I certainly didn't tell you to do that and Neptune's Harvest didn't tell you to do that.

- Yeah.

- No, it's got to be really dilute, but that's OK.

The plants are in a little bit of shock, and it's well known that overfed plants do attract more insect pests, so I would I would rotate the sharp sprays of water, don't put them down, they do an excellent job, and then some neem, maybe a week later, and then some horticultural soap spray a week after that.

For a first-timer, I think you're doing great and now have a gentle hand with the fertilizers.

You know, for instance, when I use a liquid product like that, I do like to glugs in a quart jar.

- OK. - All right, we got to go.

- Sounds good.

- See you later.

- All right, thanks, Mike.

- Bye-bye.

- Bye.

Faisal, welcome to You Bet Your Garden.

- Thank you.

- Well, thank you for calling, Faisal, how are you?

I'm well, thank you.

How are you?

I'm just Ducky!

Yes, we are, Ducky.

Um... Oh, Ducky's moving.

Playing hide and seek behind Galactus.

Where are you, man?

- I am in St Mary's, in Pennsylvania.

- St Mary's, Pennsylvania?

- Yep, that's about two and a half...

I'm sorry, I'm about one and a half hours from State College, North Central.

- What can we do for you?

- Well, I have a grapevine that I started from a cutting I got from a friend of mine, and the first years it started producing grapes, the grape clusters were sparse, but they were nice, black, round, everything.

Now, the past few years, the grapes with the clusters would have green grapes, still a little bit sparse.

- Mmm-hmm.

- However, halfway, they would turn brown and then they would shrivel.

They would shrivel completely.

- Yes.

They're overcrowded.

- OK. - Grapes and apples and peaches need to be heavily thinned.

You know, I realized a couple of years ago, this is probably why grape leaves were such a popular part of such a popular dish in, you know, in the native countries.

Because once the grapevine gets established and starts putting out fruit, you're really supposed to go in there and pick off half the leaves and half the clusters.

And if you go to a professional, you know, grape farm, grapevine, grape thing, out in California, you'll see the lanes between the vines are covered with grapes and grape leaves.

- OK, I see.

So if you thin it out, it'll allow for more air flow and the problem should solve itself.

- One quick question, please.

The main shoot has about three shoots coming out of it.

Would I benefit from cutting one of those even further?

- Don't you want a bigger grapevine?

- Uh, not necessarily.

This is this is a backyard grapevine.

It's the only one in the back yard.

And you know, we have it in a smaller area in the yard.

- Again contributing to its cloistered... - Right.

- Yeah.

OK, yeah, you can cut them off without harming the plant.

I would do it about two to three weeks after roses bloom in your area.

- OK, very good.

- All right, sir?

- Thank you so much, I appreciate it, Mike.

- Hey, I love easy calls!

- OK, very good.

you have a good day, sir.

- You too.

Bye-bye.

- Thanks, bye.

All right, it is time for the question of the week, which we're calling, so cleverly... Get it?

Nicole, from Wilmington, North Carolina, writes, "Hey Mike, I enjoy listening to your podcast."

I guess that means we have to use your question this week, doesn't it?

"I recently moved to... McGrath interrupts.

That last part is a great idea.

Many people give no thought to the movement of the sun over the season, and you'll have the real-life data to make an informed decision.

Unless you ignore it, of course.

Back to Nicole... Well, Nicole, I can tell you from personal experience that birds love to eat crab apples in the fall, after the fruits have fermented on the tree.

The first year I lived in our house, I started to notice what looked like tomato sauce on my car every morning.

"Lousy kids," I thought, "leave my last tomatoes alone!"

Then, one morning, an obviously inebriated robin kind of fell on my car's windshield.

He didn't crash, he kind of bird stumbled onto the car, looked over at me and seemed to say, "Excuse me, sir...

This won't happen again..." Then he rolled over a couple dozen times to get his footing, took off and fell into the hardy begonias.

I think he was also laughing at the time.

In other words, you'd be running the local titmouse taproom as opposed to a rocking robin restaurant.

And this tree is not a four-season delight.

For about three weeks in the spring, especially if the weather is dry, it sports bright red flower buds that open to pink and finally decorate a huge area around the tree with white flower petals.

Hey, anybody want to get married before it rains?

The rest of the year, people look at it and ask, Is it dead?

To which I am morally obligated to say, no, no, it's just resting.

However, I must admit that it also attracts an almost impossible number of bumblebees when it blooms, which I consider essential, as little else in flower that early in the season and the bumbles are already out and ready to pollinate.

So, let's just agree that it isn't a showcase tree but it has its moments, OK?

Mulberries?!

Where were you searching, Gardens Of The Damned?

At any rate, this complicated sidewalk stainer deserves its own article, and it shall receive one, maybe even soon.

And now back to our show in progress.

Yes, he's finally going to answer the question, cats and kittens.

Back in '93, we did a special issue of Organic Gardening Magazine, featuring the most bug-eating birds and the plants that they love.

So, here's what we came up with.

Number one was pine trees.

Surprised?

So was I.

But native pines attract beneficial birds all year long with shelter, pine cone seed and bark insects.

Among the visiting birdies are cardinals, chickadees, fly catchers, nuthatches, vireos and many more.

We move on to number two, junipers.

They bring in cardinals, grosbeaks, phoebes and robins, and kind of look nice too.

Number three, serviceberry.

An exceptional plant that pollinates and fruits very early in the season, producing our first human fruits, also called juneberries.

It attracts a massive number of pollinators and beneficial birds, and the berries tastes good.

Number four is holies.

To get the best fruit, make sure the plant has a pollinator, if it needs one.

Then you also got pollinator plants.

It provides welcome food and shelter in the winter for cardinals, jays, cedar waxwings and many others.

Yes, that is four trees and not three.

I make the rules here in Mike's multiverse.

And besides, we're not even done yet, we move on to non-trees.

Native ornamental grasses provide food and shelter from late summer through winter for a wide variety of seed eaters.

Noted naturalist Craig Tufts, of the National Wildlife Federation, recommends bluestem and, quote, India grass, but turns his thumb down to invasive pest grasses like pampas grass and Miscanthus, which are becoming a real problem in certain areas.

Annual flowers that meet this bill include Sensation cosmos, which sets a lot of seed over a long period of time.

Amaranth, bachelor's button, calendula, coreopsis, marigolds, Mexican sunflower - aka tithonia, one of our personal faves, it fattens up the monarch butterflies for their long migration in the fall - nasturtium, snapdragons, sweet alyssum and zinnia.

We conclude with perennials, which include coreopsis, foxglove - I almost hate to mention it because it is the source of a very potent heart drug, and some people have had palpitations just by touching it, so don't let kids near it and always wear gloves handling it.

Purple coneflower, or our old friend echinacea, California poppy, gloriosa daisy and goldenrod, which doesn't make you sneeze, it's insect-pollinated.

Only wind-blown plants make you sneeze, you got it?

Well, that sure was some interesting information about attracting the birds and the bees, now, wasn't it?

Luckily for yous, the question of the week appears in print at the Gardens Alive website.

To read it over at your leisure, your leisure, whatever.

Just click the link for the question of the week at our website, which is still and will forever be - yell it out, kids!

- YouBetYourGarden.org.

Gardens Alive supports the You Bet Your Garden question of the week and you always find the latest question of the week at the Gardens Alive website.

You Bet Your Garden is a half-hour public television show, an hour-long public radio show and podcast, all produced and delivered to you weekly from the Univest Studios of Lehigh Valley Public Media, in Bethlehem, PA. Our radio show is distributed by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.

You Bet Your Garden was created by Mike McGrath.

Mike McGrath was created when he shook hands with Captain Cold and the Weather Wizard at the same time.

His monthly heating bill is now $4,000.

Yikes!

My producer is threatening to chop down my crab apple tree if I don't get out of this studio, we must be out of time.

But you can call us any time at... Or send us your e-mail, your tired, your poor, your wretched refuse of a question, teaming towards our garden shores at...

Please include your location.

You'll find all of this contact information at that website.... Where you'll also find the answers to hundreds of your garden questions, audio of this show, video of this show, audio and video of previous shows, and our Internationally adored podcast.

I'm your host, Mike McGrath.

My snow peas are growing tall this spring, bulbs are looking great and the garlic is so beautiful, I can't wait for harvest time in July.

But I will wait because otherwise it would be stupid, and I'll see you again next week.