- Welcome to Beyond the Classroom on PBS39.

I'm your host, Joe Pacitti, and it's a pleasure to sit down with you this evening.

Teaching, in my opinion, is not only an enormously rewarding profession, it's a calling, a public service.

But as is the case with any call to service, teachers, staff, paraprofessionals, custodial staff, bus drivers, substitute teachers, administrators, food service and social workers have shouldered an increasingly heavy burden both during and before the pandemic with regards to caring for and educating our kids.

All these folks are not only essential, but indispensable.

And the question many have today is, who would want to work in schools right now?

Today, we'll sit down with school leaders to explore answers to this question and talk about why becoming a teacher is more than just another job.

Let's get started.

So, very excited to be joined by our two guests this evening.

As always, I never do justice to introducing our guests effectively.

I want to make sure that they're speaking for themselves, so I would ask your name, your position, and then as a follow up and most importantly, what inspired you to go into education?

So we'll start with Mark right here.

- Great.

Thank you.

Thanks for having me.

Very much appreciate being here this evening.

My name is Mark Madsen.

I'm superintendent of Parkland School District.

And, you know, my journey into education, I would probably consider it to be relatively traditional, although I was not thinking that I'd be an educator coming up through the ranks in school.

Probably, maybe in high school and college, I really started to think about, "What was I going to do with the rest of my life?"

At that point, most of my focus was on athletics, and that was probably the initial avenue to teaching, that I thought coaching would be an avenue and an area that I would really enjoy and that I liked.

And that was the first kind of spark to say, "What are some of the things that I think I'm really good at "and I'm passionate about "and how can I parlay them into a future?"

And so teaching and coaching kind of went hand in hand for me as I got into college and thought about what I was going to do with the rest of my life.

And that was the path, that was really the avenue.

It was coaching that led me to teaching.

- That's excellent.

And I'd love to talk more about the coaching-teaching connection because there's a lot of stuff to talk about there, I'm sure.

And then, Joe, would you mind introducing yourself?

- Sure, yeah.

Thanks for thanks for having me this evening.

I'm excited to be here.

My name's Joe Anthes.

I'm the principal at William Penn Elementary School in the Bethlehem Area School District.

What inspired me to become an educator, to become a teacher?

I had a lot of family members that were educators that encouraged me when I was in high school to consider the field of education.

And probably a little bit stubborn and I chose a different major, I went in my freshman year and I wasn't enjoying it.

So I remember reflecting and thinking about what I really wanted to do, what really made me happy, and that was always working with people.

And I like working with youth, as a counselor in the summer or a volunteer coach.

So I quickly changed my major.

I eventually became a social studies teacher in a middle school and then for several years in a high school.

And then I was fortunate enough to...

I left New Jersey at the time, where I was teaching, came to Pennsylvania, got hired in Bethlehem, and I was the assistant principal at Broughal Middle School for some time before making the jump into elementary and joining the team at William Penn, where I currently am.

So, like Mark, I did have a background in sports and I coached.

I was fortunate when I was teaching to advise clubs.

And, really, it was just always chances to be around the kids and always chances to teach in some different avenue, whether it was on the field, in the classroom.

And even today, I very much try to keep in mind in my role as a building leader, what our teachers do day-to-day and approach my work each day from the teachers' lens.

- That's excellent.

Thank you both again.

So, Joe, I want to follow up on something you had just mentioned, you know, that day to day and following up and keeping up with what a teacher's reality is like.

Could you give us a perspective in your building?

What is it like being a teacher right now?

Because depending on where you're consuming your news and what you're hearing, it can look different.

Right?

And, you know, we always like to get it from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

So could you give us some perspective on that day to day?

- Sure.

Yeah.

I mean, we're in the building now five days a week, and I know that would have sounded ridiculous a couple of years back, but after a hybrid schedule last year and the closures of spring of 2020, we're back in school full time.

So, you know, you walk in and you hear those sounds of kids and you hear the interactions and it's busier than it once was.

So it's exciting.

It's positive.

Our kids are definitely showing a lot of growth as they've returned to school in the fall.

And I think that our teachers are recognizing, not that they didn't know their importance before, but seeing how much kids are responding to them this fall after returning from such a disrupted schedule has been one of the really big positives, I think, of this year.

Sure, it does come with a lot of stress.

I think something we've talked about recently as a staff is, you know, school has been one of those institutions which has remained, even during the closures, a consistent presence in a child's life.

So there's been more and more responsibility, I think, put on us to solve a lot of the problems that are really challenging right now.

So it's certainly I think we do need to acknowledge the positive, that we're educating our kids every day, that our classrooms are active, busy places with a lot of learning taking place.

But it certainly comes with a high level of responsibility, maybe some that we didn't have in the past, and some of those stressors which are very much in the media and currently talked about right now.

- Mark, similar question for you, obviously from a district perspective, from a superintendent.

You're seeing different things and interacting in a different way.

What does it look like from that vantage point?

- Well, I'll start by saying it's amazing.

I think it's really unbelievable what we've seen our teachers be able to do, and not just our teachers, but all of our staff.

And one of the things...

Even in Joe's comment, you can hear in his voice the passion that he has for what he does.

And that comes through even in this studio right now for me to hear from him.

And as a building leader and as a district leader, that's exactly what you want and what you want to hear.

And when you go in the classrooms in Parkland, you see the same thing.

You see the passion that's coming from our teachers.

And the work that they've been doing is simply amazing, not just now, but through the pandemic.

And the fact of being hybrid, being thrown into this in the spring of 2020 without any, really, training, any knowledge or experience and how we're going to make this work.

From that time to this point, amazing is the word I would say.

I would also say exhausting.

I know Joe mentioned it a little bit too about some of the pitfalls that we're seeing.

It's tiring.

I think that for our staffs and our teachers, our bus drivers, our custodians, our food service workers, it's a day-to-day grind.

And everyone is feeling that across all different avenues of society.

But when you're in a building and you're with kids six, seven hours every day, and they're doing their best, it's exhausting.

And so it's a credit to the work that they've done.

It's a credit to all of the school districts around the area, probably around the country, for the ability to be able to maintain what they're doing.

Take some of what we see and saw as some learning gaps at the beginning of this year, I know, Joe, you had just mentioned that, to where we are now, we can see that growth and coming back to where it was maybe a little bit pre-pandemic.

We still have some work to do.

There are some other issues that we see within the classroom.

But academically, you know, the kids have responded really well.

And the fact that they're able to be there five days a week, I know it doesn't even sound right to say, 'Hey, we're so happy that we're in there for five days a week," but comparatively to where we were to where we are now, it's amazing.

- How has your district adjusted with those increased needs in the classroom?

You had mentioned... At least in our district, we're seeing, as I'm sure, Joe, you're also seeing in your building, social, emotional concerns, right?

Considerations and challenges that teachers have to mitigate now.

What kinds of professional development or things have you empowered teachers with to assist with that particular challenge?

- Well, the first thing I would say is a little bit of grace and patience, because when we're bringing these kids back into this environment that is, really, in a lot of ways, very unnatural.

You're back in this classroom with 20 kids, 25 kids, 18, depending on what type of classroom you have, and a teacher.

And they haven't been able to do that consistently, day after day.

You're kind of relearning what school looks like for a lot of people.

And for some, even adults, you're relearning, "How do you communicate with people "in a face-to-face environment?"

So we have to allow our teachers to have a little bit of grace and patience and understand that we knew in the summer... We've had a lot of talk with our staff and our administrators and our principals that, in many ways, this year was going to be more difficult than last year because it's exhausting.

You're working still in this environment where we're in a pandemic, there's a lot of outside stress, and then there's a lot of internal stress to try to make sure that these kids aren't losing any more ground, that we're able to maintain some of the academic growth.

So we work with each other, and I think we try to provide a lot of grace and time.

And so we've worked in the summer, we worked in the spring in terms of some of the professional development opportunities with our staff to say, "All right, what are some "of the things that you can expect when you come back?"

You can't go right into the academic lens and the academic sense on day one.

You have to work with kids and understanding of what it's like to be working together and having interactions on a day to day basis at any level, whether it's a kindergarten student or it's a 12th grade student.

It's just a little bit different right now.

So we try to give each other a little bit of grace and we try to provide time for teachers to work with each other and really kind of rethink, "All right.

What is this going to look like?

"How do you even open up group work and communicate "with our students to give them the right type "of instructional tools?"

So, you know, I wouldn't say there's one particular avenue on professional development that is a catch all.

I think it's the fact that everything is going to take a little bit of time, in terms of some of those behaviors that we see in the classroom.

- So there's a lot there, right?

And this all drills down to the central question, and I've asked it myself a million times, and I know that people are, which is, "Why would you go into education now?"

Because we all went through our pre-service training at a very different time.

And if I'm looking at anything, really, whether it's in the media or in conversation with folks, education isn't the most attractive thing right now.

But we know we need more teachers.

There's always a need for more people to go into applicant pools and there's a critical need for that.

And there will be in the future for sure.

Why do it?

- Well, Joe, I'll start, and I would say that it is still... You mentioned it, actually, in your opening.

It's a calling.

For some people, it's something that you feel and you know that you're trying to provide for others.

And, yeah, people can learn it.

It's a skill.

You get better at it with experience.

But there's something that's innate and it's a calling for people.

And there's really very little, I would say, occupations that have that type of calling.

And so for those people that are really passionate about something, they're really good at something, they enjoy working with people and they can communicate, teaching is a fantastic career for many different reasons.

But it's not a career.

It's a livelihood.

It's a lifestyle.

It's a choice that you make.

And I think that although that it's very stressful, it's demanding, it takes a lot of time... Maybe some of what people view as inspiring work is challenging right now.

But for those that have some of those innate qualities, the experience, they're really passionate about a particular subject area or even age group of students and feel like, "What I'm going to do is make a difference for people," it's a fantastic career and it's a fantastic choice to make.

- No, absolutely, and I love how we went back to that.

It is a calling.

It's very hard to explain if someone doesn't feel that way.

I had a family member just recently... My wife teaches in higher ed.

And, you know, I've been a teacher and asked, like, "Why do you enjoy teaching?"

And it was a really hard question to answer, but there is something innate about it.

And I think those who are currently in the profession, there may be part of the current context, the pandemic and the demands right now, that they don't enjoy.

But if you ask them if they're doing a job they enjoy, the majority of teachers still say, yes, they enjoy what they're doing.

They recognize the importance of it at this time.

We joked one day, and not so much joked but compared it to...

This is our 1930s Great Depression.

This is World War II era.

Like, this is the time when, yeah, it's maybe the most difficult, but a chance for us to really make the greatest impact when there's the most need.

And I think what's challenging is that we don't always hear that, right?

Like, we hear a lot about why maybe people shouldn't go into the profession or what's challenging about the profession.

But all too often, we're not talking with those pre-service teachers, those high school students thinking about it, about what those rewarding opportunities are to do something really special with your life that happens to also be your career.

And I think Mark touched upon that, right?

It's a career, but it's a calling first, rather than the other way around.

So, yeah.

I mean, I think...

Right now, I'm currently working with a group of undergraduate students at Moravian University, and I always tell them, "I am just so happy "that you are here" each time we have class.

I love hearing about their pre-service experience, because the excitement in that room...

It just really motivates me to have a lot of young, very passionate service educators.

And that's what we need right now.

We need people with that passion, who feel that calling, who have a skill set, who are intelligent and they love working with kids.

And if you love working with kids, you will find your role in the profession and you can develop.

We have a lot of people who are experiencing different roles, maybe working in a specialist role this year.

We have some new coaching opportunities where people have taken on that and they're learning a new skill set as they're also meeting a current demand.

So I just don't think we necessarily focus on that as much.

And we should because the need will continue to be there.

But the rewards, I think, will only continue to be even greater as our kids need us more.

- I was having a conversation with somebody the other day who's an educator who said that we're being asked to do too much.

And as a building leader and as a district leader, how do you respond to that comment?

Because it's something you've probably heard before, right?

We're asked to do so much.

We're asked to be a social worker, an educator, a pseudo parent in some cases, right?

How do you respond to that?

- Well, I respond with, in some ways, they're right.

There's a lot of pressure and emphasis on what happens now when students come in our doors and when they leave and that extension beyond just that individual classroom.

So I think that it is challenging for people right now, because there are needs that are there that maybe weren't there pre-pandemic.

As I mentioned before, we're kind of re-learning some of what we would consider to be norms for behaviors and how people would communicate with each other.

So it's partly true.

But at the same time, that's the reality.

That's the situation we face.

So it's OK to acknowledge that this is really difficult work.

And we shouldn't we shouldn't try to sugarcoat the fact that it is challenging to be a teacher at any level, at any spot, in any district right now.

It's challenging.

But it's work that you chose and it's work that we can help to support you in and to make sure that we control what that looks like and give you as many supports as we possibly can.

And I think from a district level, that's the message.

We want our staff to feel like, "Hey, your work, "we acknowledge that work is challenging, "but we also want you to love your job.

"We want you to love your kids.

"We want you to enjoy what you're doing."

And we have to try to create an environment in the classroom that takes away as many barriers as possible.

That's really what my job is, "What can I do to take down barriers so that you can "communicate one on one with students, you can see the growth for that particular student and your whole entire class of students?"

Or at the building level, the whole building.

What can we do to help support?

And I think when you have mindsets like that and people working together, you see some of the strides that that are made.

And I think sometimes, you know, one thing happens and maybe there's a negative light that's put on something.

But overall, the work that educators have done throughout this pandemic, as Joe touched upon, has been just remarkable.

And I think a lot of that comes from just teamwork and support within the organization.

- Yeah, no, I have to agree.

I mean, I think in many cases, we are asked to do more now than ever before.

I know that stretches across different, you know, occupations, different industries.

We've made a lot of comparisons to the field of medicine, and especially nurses and the stress that they're currently under in their roles.

I think that one of the things we need to do more societally, right, is focus on self care, which is a trendy term right now.

But I think instead of just saying to teachers, "Hey, focus on self care," we have to put them in position to really practice it.

We're taking some small steps in our building that... Again, it's not the answer, but trying to have more staff circles to be able to have that dialogue, just open space to speak in morning meeting time, prior to kids coming in, trying to do a little bit of mindfulness and meditation, to give people that opportunity to participate, but also to model and try to practice what we preach a little bit.

We focused a lot just on a team, as Mark said, you know, like leaning on the team, because... Something we try to say a lot in our building or focus on is that "The best tools are right here on our team," right?

So we don't need to necessarily look outside.

And we might not get the answer outside the building.

But we have a lot of good hearts, a lot of good minds in our building.

And I think the other thing along with that, with the self care and kind of the mentality we have to have right now to take on these challenges, is to provide our teachers with some time, right?

Some time to breathe, some time to reflect, some time to collaborate.

We were really fortunate recently.

Our superintendent and Board of Education approved some additional in-service time and we were really able to build in more collaborative time for teachers.

And I just know that was really, really appreciated for them to come back into the classroom and feel a little bit recharged, having spent some time together and plan together for what comes next.

So, you know, I think as we move forward, we have to focus on the self care.

But, again, it can't just be that trendy term.

We have to start trying to provide some of those supports for our teachers, model it and really make it part of the job to sustain them, knowing how draining it can be, knowing how emotionally exhausting teaching can be when you're really doing it right.

- Go ahead, Mark.

- I was just going to just add that, from a district lens, we this year have tried to step back a little bit from trying to add something new.

Maybe it was in the works and we knew that we needed to proceed with a particular initiative.

But you also have to look at the reality of the situation and maybe step back.

And our team has really tried to, central office wise, just get out into the buildings, pop in classrooms and talk to the teachers and kids and make sure that they understand that we know what's happening and we feel for them and we're here to support them, and just have casual conversations so that they recognize that they're not on an island, they're not doing this alone.

And any time that we can provide that extra support, we try to do that.

So we've spent a lot of time in classrooms.

We spend a lot of time getting out.

We do little things that are silly, like random giveaways for some prize packs that we do for staff, which... Again, it's silly, but it really makes a difference for people to feel like, "OK, we are all in this together."

Whatever occupation or whatever role you serve in the Parkland School District, we're one team trying to move forward for the sake of all of our children.

And I think that has really helped, so far this year, kind of maintain some of that positive vibe.

Again, speaking from my perspective, certainly, it keeps me going because it's stressful.

And I think, Joe, you talk about self care and the things that you can do individually, but we've got to be able to take care of each other.

- Yeah, yeah.

And the one thing that I'm hearing that I absolutely love is this connection between, one, the collaborative time, which I think is affording teachers more time to work together, is absolutely critical to make sure that they're driving change, but also, again, checking in with one another and possibly having those conversations about how stressful it is.

And the bottom line is, this is not a profession where you feel professional all the time, right?

I think that we could probably argue that there are many people out there who don't feel "professional", so to speak, right, in that sense of the term, because of all the added burdens that are thrust upon teachers?

So I'm endeared to hear that both districts are really taking that supportive approach and focusing on the teacher first, because without that, we can't do anything for students, right?

We need to also take care of ourselves in addition to that.

One of the things I wanted to wheel back to was pre-service teachers.

And, Mark, I'll start with you.

And then, Joe, I'll talk to you at a more kind of granular level.

From a district perspective with pre-service teaching programs, which is people, you know, getting their state certifications in a content area, how does Parkland partner with universities to attract applicants from those programs?

How do you encourage them?

How do you onboard them?

What is their response like after they've done their experience in Parkland?

Could you walk us through that?

- Well, a lot has changed, obviously, through the pandemic and the ability to bring teachers in and student teachers.

We're at that point where we're able to bring teachers in face to face as opposed to just doing something through Zoom.

I couldn't imagine doing my pre-service teaching through a Zoom classroom, like many, many had to do in the past year and a half.

And, again, it's remarkable the fact that they were able to do that.

I think Parkland does a fantastic job of working with the surrounding schools, in terms of who's available.

We're open and we want to make sure that we're providing that service to everybody.

So our human resource department, Pam Kelly, does a phenomenal job of reaching out to all of the local schools, to communicate and have the point people there.

And we attract a lot of candidates in Parkland, which is great, because it sets up for those teachers to be able to meet other teachers, those pre-service teachers meeting the classroom teachers, getting a chance to meet building principals, networking, understanding how it works and knowing the challenges of what they're going to face.

So I think Parkland does a fantastic job of attracting pre-service teachers and then also retaining and seeing, "OK, when we do "have openings, we're able to remember we had this person "and they were really great."

"We have an opening.

"Maybe that person will be able to apply "and we have some experience with them."

- And then, Joe, at the building level, what does it look like day to day for a student teacher who has a cooperating teacher?

What kind of mentorship are they getting?

What does that experience look like from a leadership perspective?

- Yeah, it's funny.

We actually have some really talented pre-service teachers working with us that I've been tremendously impressed with, because when you think about their careers, talk about students' education being disruptive in the K-12 setting.

But that's true of our college students as well.

Right now, we actually have a few who... Their semester is coming to an end, so I've had a chance to do mock interviews and observations, to give them some of that feedback, but to also give them a little bit of evidence to take with them of their time in our building.

And it's been really positive.

And we try to encourage them by saying, "Hey, what you are seeing and experiencing right now, "everyone's talking about how challenging it is, and it is, "but for you, that's all you've ever known.

"Imagine that going forward right now, you're taking "that challenging experience with you "and things are going to improve."

As long as it took us through this pandemic to wind up at a point that we keep talking about in the current setting, it might take that long to come back to whatever the new normal may be, but I think for our pre-service teachers, there is some opportunity in experiencing what they are right now.

And you brought up the mentorship piece.

Obviously, it's always been important, right?

But now more than ever, both modeling the good instructional practices or classroom management, but also the mindset of what is required right now, going back to our last question of, "How do you keep yourself "in that good mental and emotional state, "to be able to serve the needs of your kids?"

So I think there's an added component to the mentorship there that's really important.

But we've had some tremendous pre-service teachers I've been really, really impressed with, and with that, our staff opening up their doors at a time when it would be really easy to say, "You know, I've got a lot on my plate right now.

"This year is going to be unlike any other."

And we keep saying that, but it is.

And yet they have opened up their doors and that's what we need.

And I think veteran teachers still recognize that, right, that the future of the profession, those people are going to come in and be my colleague or eventually take my role when I hang it up, they're equally, if not more important, to make sure that we're addressing their needs and helping them develop as well.

- That's excellent.

Joe, I'm going to ask you a question, and then, Mark, it's going to be the same question for you.

But I'll ask you first.

You're standing in front of an auditorium full of folks.

These are college students who are considering education as a possible path.

You've got one minute to make a pitch to them to be a teacher.

What are you going to say to them?

- That's an awesome question.

First, I'm going to say they're here in this auditorium for a reason, right?

That calling that we talked about is already... That little fire inside is already kind of lit.

"So if you're here, continue to follow that.

"You have never been needed more than you are right now, "so if you've wanted to do something special "with your life, you are in the right place.

"It's going to be challenging at times.

"You're going to be tested.

"But hang in there, surround yourself with the right people "and know that teaching is very, very much a journey."

You learn...

It's kind of cliche, but you learn equally as much, I think, every day as your students do, so know that you will continue to learn, you will continue to get better.

But, yeah, feed that fire inside of you and follow that calling.

- That's excellent.

Mark, follow his pitch.

- That's a really hard pitch to follow.

He did a really great job because I would probably steal a few things that he said.

And I think I would just add that, you know, they're there and the passion that they have for kids has never been more needed than it is now, and society as a whole has begun to rebuild certain connections.

And in order to really help rebuild some of these connections, especially for kids, we need people who are willing to do it and they feel comfortable doing it and they want to feel good about what they do.

And they want to be able to say, "You know what?

"At the end of the day, when I put my head down, "I really made a difference.

I made a difference."

It's a cliche.

Maybe it's, "I made a difference "in one child's life today."

Or it's a whole group of kids.

Or, "Throughout the whole school year, "I was able to make these connections that can last "and can spark a lifetime."

Joe, you mentioned about mentors, and we're all probably sitting here for a reason, deciding to go into the field of education because we had fantastic teachers, we had fantastic coaches and mentors along the way.

And we could probably all name many of them, and the affinity and the thoughts that we have for what they were able to do for us, and for some people, that could be something that is what they want.

That idea of, "Hey, this is a calling.

"It makes me feel good and I'm giving back to society "and I'm helping build back to where we need to be."

- That's excellent.

I'm sold.

If I were sitting in that auditorium, I think I would do it all over again.

I'll be very honest with you.

Thank you, gentlemen.

This has been an excellent conversation.

I know it's something that's sorely needed.

And it's just refreshing to hear that both districts in your building, Joe, and at Parkland, you're doing excellent work to attract teachers, maintain them and to make sure that we're keeping them professional and cared for.

That's wonderful.

So, Dr Madson, Dr Anthes, thank you so much for coming on this evening.

So this show is coming to a close this evening.

This is actually our last episode.

And I'd like to take a moment to thank my family, first and foremost, for allowing me the opportunity to share my Wednesday evenings with you.

But most of all, I wanted to thank you, the viewers, and guests for taking the time to watch, learn and participate alongside me these past few months.

Until next time, as the proverb goes, it takes a village to raise a child, and we hope that you'll consider our program a part of your village.

Do you have questions or comments?

We do want to hear from you, so please go to PBS39.org/classroom or join the conversation on social media.

I'm your host, Joe Pacitti.

Good night.