And good evening.

You've got more than money.

You've got Jean Dickerson, you have Megan, our financial correspondent, waiting in the wings to bring your questions to air.

And we welcome back all of your our loyal viewers.

If you've seen us in the past and you've decided to return, that's a great honor that you do to us.

You do for us and with us.

If you are joining us for the first time, I think you'll find that our show offers a great deal that will keep your attention, because.

Yes, not necessarily me.

Although I bring 780 years of experience as a as an impressive number made up, completely made up, but impressive number nonetheless.

But mostly because you will be hearing from your your friends, your neighbors, your colleagues, your family.

Folks, that that you you may not know by name, but are living, very similar lives to your own.

And they have financial challenges, their financial questions.

And, and because that's the name of our show is more than money.

Quite often those, those financial questions kind of bleed over into more life questions, more life, quality of life questions or personal challenge questions.

And we answer those as well.

There's no, there's no, Phil Donahue here, that's for sure.

There's no, psychiatrist in the wings.

But 780 years of experience brings a little something to the table.

So we will help in any way that we we feel we are able.

And that's a great honor to us.

You allow us to be the most relevant show on television, financial show on television, because we answer the questions that are most relevant to you.

It works out really, really beautifully.

So, by the way, just a peek behind the curtains.

We do this often and that's a reference to Wizard of Oz.

Of course there are.

Don't look behind the curtain.

In our case, we invite you to look behind the curtains.

We craft shows, in advance.

And, and put real effort into it.

We have a great team here.

That, gosh, the the entire production team, gosh, they make me look at talk about a challenge.

Max has already got that.

So we're in very, very good shape, but we have, a real spirit.

We have a real spirit.

And, a young lady that I just spoke to, on our break was, was reminding me of that.

We have a spirit here, and we have a spirit of, a positivity and a spirit of of, positive expectations for the future, for ourselves and for you.

And I hope that comes across.

I hope that that energy, that, that life, that spirit comes across to you as we as we hope as many of you as we possibly can.

If you are saying what Jesus that that sounds great.

I'd love to take advantage.

Send me those emails.

Jean at ask mtm.com.

We have an entire team that answers emails back to you every email gets answered back.

So if you're saying geez, I didn't see mine, check your spam filter.

Always do that first.

But we are in that, that really blessed position where we can be, of of value, of service to so many people, many of which we've never met and maybe never will meet.

But if we can benefit you, if we can serve you, we'd love to do that.

So let's show you exactly how this works.

Megan, where do we start this evening?

Hi, Jean.

Let's see if we can share some positivity with our first question tonight.

It says I've spent six years at a mostly miserable job where I have dealt with poor management and with a slacker lying coworker being promoted.

All of this has led me to want to quit.

It's obviously a bit more complicated, but there's too much to go into right now.

I just turned 58.

I have $1 million in a 401 K and Roth IRA, but I feel like it's not enough to retire as I'll need health care and I can't collect Social Security until I'm at least 62.

But I would prefer to wait until I'm 67.

Please be kind in your response.

The work situation has become unbearable and is especially sad because I love my work.

It's just so unfair.

I've been looking for a new job, but I am fed up and want to quit my current job.

Currently I live comfortably on $5,000 a month, but I could probably live on $3,500 a month.

Including expenses, rent, and an $800 a month, that I'll need to pay for my health care.

Wondering, can I quit and be free?

Or would it be a foolish move?

Thanks for your advice.

You may have said thanks to quickly.

Is it a foolish move?

Yes, yes.

It it it would.

In my opinion, it would make no sense whatsoever, to quit simply for the, the the angst of it all, without having at least a, a solid plan, a reasonable plan to get you from point A to point B if, you're saying, geez, I'd like to retire at 58, lots of folks would like to retire at 58.

They are in a similar circumstance to you.

You don't have enough money to retire.

That's about as clear as I can be.

And and I hope that you take that in the spirit in which it's intended, which is I don't want you to make a mistake that you will look back on and say, gosh, I'm now 64 and I'm largely out of money.

Social security will not cover even my minimal needs.

It will not be $3,500, particularly if you take it early and you're saying 62, but you like to wait to 67.

I would like you to wait until 70 so you max out your Social Security.

All right.

Admittedly, I have in the past on air, had had, episodes of snark.

I admit that that's part and parcel.

Got it.

But slacker lying coworker that that's pretty good.

Snark yourself.

So I guess it doesn't surprise me that you reached out to us for, like, on hey, Kindred Spirits.

Fantastic.

The reality is that there's a couple things that you, you need to kind of get your head around, before you decide to quit.

Number one, are there options within your current job that apparently you love?

That would allow you to stay there without dealing with this other this extraneous.

Yuck.

How about, remote work?

Since the Covid, there are tons and tons and tons of opportunities.

Many, many companies, actually would prefer employees to to to work remotely.

It's less expensive.

There's less, downtime.

There's less, call ins or call outs, I should say, because it's much more comfortable working at home.

Maybe that's a possibility.

We don't know for a fact, but at least ask that question.

Number two, maybe reframe your thinking around the job, in terms of how you react to things, bad stuff.

There's there's in many, many scenarios.

There's somebody you're working with.

You're going to, geez, that just not my true.

Exactly.

It's but but you also don't have to respond in a way that causes you anxiety or you pain.

You can respond by going, what a bobo, and walk away and walk away.

If that is simply impossible, then if you love your work, my guess is that there are competitors out there that do similar work that you would enjoy, that you could shift your offer your talents to, to a competitor.

Can you retire at 58?

The answer is no for a half a dozen different reasons.

Not the least of which is most of your money is in retirement funds.

As as many of you and our audience have already picked up is 58, 59.5 is the first age at which you can take money from those funds without penalty, without penalty.

So if you start taking money now, penalty, if you started taking money now and you wanted that money to last for a lifetime, it's a rough rule of thumb is 4%.

4% of a million bucks is 40,000.

You're saying you might squeak by on 42,000, but you really would like to live on 60,000.

And we haven't even talked about income taxes.

Medical expenses.

Yeah.

Medical insurance.

This is no joke.

You have got to be very, very clear about where you're going to get medical coverage and how much that may cost so that you're factoring that in.

Another reason why working remotely or offering your services to a competitor make way more sense than just simply going, I'm going to retire because of your, maintaining your health care every year.

Each year that you are able to continue to be productive, to not draw on your on your, your savings.

If, for example, you are able to make it over the next nine years, to age 67 to start Social Security in some way, shape or form the million dollars that you have currently.

If it were, if you were able to average about an 8% return per year.

I'm not saying that you can not saying it.

Certainly it's not guaranteed, but if you were to average about 8% a year without adding any additional savings, your 1 million would be 2 million.

And now all of a sudden, 4% is $80,000 a year, plus your Social Security.

Pick a number.

And let's say that that's 40,000 a year.

Now you can live comfortably on 5000, but at age 67, you might very well be able to live on $10,000.

So again, in terms of reframing how you approach your current job, it may not change your coworker.

I guarantee you it will not change your coworker.

But if you change your attitude or if you change how you think, how you respond to that scenario where the idea of just a few more years and I'll have $2 million and I'll be fat and sassy, is it, are we allowed to say fantastic in the air?

I guess we just did fat and sassy and hang in.

You'll do fine.

Great start.

Interesting.

Very interesting.

You can't make this stuff up, Max.

This is good stuff.

Where do we go next?

Our next emailer, is curious about what end of life looks like for them.

This one says I am recently married to my long term partner, who is not well and at 80th May not live much longer.

We have kept our finances separate, but share expenses with two nephews who I haven't communicated with for years, and most of my friends are older or have passed away.

I realize I have no one I could reasonably ask to be my executor or guardian in my later years.

I'm looking to set up a law firm to manage my affairs when needed.

While I don't have a large estate, approximately $1 million, I will likely inherit approximately 2.5 million from my spouse.

Much of my wealth is in IRAs and Roth IRAs, and have beneficiaries already indicated.

What I think I am looking for is a firm or agent to check in with me periodically, and to manage my affairs when I cannot.

I have looked for larger firms since they will not likely close when one of the partners retires, but I do not know of any accreditation, organizations for guardianship and do not know what to look for in one.

I have heard horror stories about court ordered guardianship.

I'm sure there are many more questions that I have missed, but can you advise me?

Thanks.

Bless you.

And your partner.

Goodness.

Yes.

Planning at this, stage of life can be a challenge.

And your concerns are very straightforward.

Very appropriate.

The, goodness, the, request that we that you've expressed and that we receive often is.

Hey, my friends are passing away or they're my age or older.

I can't reasonably expect, that I can pick one of them.

The two to either be my guardian, look after my my my physical well-being or my trustee to look after my financial well-being.

It doesn't.

It doesn't really fit.

And you're absolutely right.

It does not.

So, yes, there are law firms, that that will assist.

There are trust companies that will assist, there are financial advisory companies that will assist.

There are a fair number of different options that you will need to explore to see which one best fits you both from a service standpoint, what they will do for you or not.

And from a cost standpoint, we don't know, from your email, exactly what you might need on an annual basis, to be, comfortable to have your bills paid, be happy and be healthy.

In, in some way, shape or form.

At some point, it appears you'll have about $3.5 million, assuming that we get, a typical or a, a kind of a traditional rule of thumb, a 4%.

We're looking at about 140,000 there.

Social Security, even if it's, 40,000 more, we're at about a $15,000 a month, income.

That's a substantial sum of money, of course, and should should allow you enough, financial resource, that a guardian that you secure, a financial advisor, perhaps, a trustee, perhaps, can, secure for you that peace of mind.

Knowing that you'll be, tended to that your needs will be attended to, effectively and efficiently.

You mentioned, looking for a firm that's larger.

That that absolutely makes sense.

I, I have, been befuddled, many, many times by folks who come to me and say, hey, I currently have an attorney or I currently have, an account, and I currently have a financial advisor.

They're fantastic.

I will never leave them.

And, goodness, that's wonderful.

Until they describe that they they they are solo practitioners.

Their attorney works out of a a small office and has a secretary or they're, CPA works out of a small office, has a secretary, financial advisor, works out of a spare bedroom and his house or her house.

And those caused me great concern, because what happens when it's not an if?

It's a when what happens when, when one of those folks is no longer with us?

I have a very close friend who was a paralegal and they estate planning firm for decades, 40 years plus.

The lead attorney passed away.

What, challenge that was for the clients.

For the clients?

No one left.

So, a firm that's constructed that has, in our case, many, many financial advisors, already systematically set up that if something happens to one advisor, there's a, a contingent of advisors steps right in so that the clients never miss a beat.

Same way in the law firm, same way in a, in an accounting firm substance.

Having that that that's at least a reasonable size or reasonable substance makes a great deal of sense.

Are there questions that you may have missed?

The answer is undoubtedly yes.

One of the advantages of working with a registered investment advisor, a fiduciary, is that they will sit with you and walk you through, starting with the fundamental questions, the fundamental, the basic questions, assets and liabilities, income and expenses, etc.. And then building from there to the more specific, the more penetrating questions about your goals, about your health issues, about your partners concerns, estate planning, tax planning, having firms of substance also brings all of that together for you under one roof.

So, goodness.

Our prayers go out to you and to your partner.

We, we we pray that, you are you're given peace and you're given, some some, some solace and some grace at a difficult time.

And that you will be led to, a team that can, can serve your needs.

Conservatism.

Goodness, mags, where to next?

Our next question is also from someone thinking ahead.

This one says I am 82 years old.

I have two 401 K accounts for a total of about $1 million.

I have RMDs automatically withdrawn annually.

The accounts are all in stocks.

Two questions is it too late for conversion and will taxes be less on the next RMD?

If I convert, I'm thinking I would pay the tax now and leave the Roth to my beneficiaries tax free.

What do you think?

I think it's a very interesting question.

Let's start with the easy one.

Is it too late?

And the answer is no, it's never too late.

It's it is, whether it's too late, too early is a very, a question very specific to you and very specific to your set of circumstances, your, your objectives, your goals, your cash flow, all of those factors brought together.

So for some folks who are 50, it's too late.

They should not do Roth conversions.

For some folks who are 82, it's it's perfectly acceptable.

So it is not an age driven question.

It is a circumstance, driven question.

And so the answer, becomes one of circumstance.

Your your last line of I want to leave the rights to my beneficiaries tax free.

That's a lovely concept.

That's a lovely idea.

And, to the extent that you expect triple H club happy, healthy 100, you've got 18 years to kind of move as much of this as you can over to the Roth side of life.

The best way to do it, the best way to do it, is, is to be able to take, some cash that you don't need to pay the tax on the conversion.

So you have $1 million, roughly speaking, at 80 to your RMDs, $50,000 a year.

You're going to take that out.

You've got to pay taxes on it.

And just for the sake of simple numbers, let's say that you net $40,000, the IRS does not allow you to convert your R&D.

So the 50,000 has to come out.

Taxes have to be paid.

We're done.

But we're not done because now we've taken 50 out the balance in your 401 K. I'm sorry, your IRA is $950,000, but we have $40,000 after tax that we need to do something with.

We can spend it, of course.

And if you need to, you should.

We can invest it somewhere.

And if you have some investment that you're drawn to, knock yourself out.

Or you could use that to pay the tax on a Roth conversion.

And again, for the sake of simple numbers so Gene doesn't get a headache.

Bottom line 20% tax bracket.

If we have $40,000 to pay the tax, we could convert five times that or $200,000.

20% of 200 is 40.

We've got that money in hand.

We had to take that out from the R&D with the R&D.

So we've now taken out 50.

We've dropped our our balance down to 950.

We can convert 200.

That goes to a Roth.

We pay the tax with the net gain from our R&D.

And now our balance in our IRA is 752 things happen that are quite good.

Number one, your R&D next year will be lower.

5% of 750 is going to be something less than $40,000.

40,000 comes out.

We pay the tax roughly 8000 bucks.

We have 32,000.

We can convert.

So 40,000 comes out.

We're at 710.

We can convert.

Goodness.

160,000.

So 710 becomes 610 becomes 550.

In a matter of two years of conversions, we've basically cut year million, our IRA in half.

And if you continue down that path, there will come a time when your RMDs are very, very small.

And so is the balance in your traditional IRA.

The rest of it has been converted to a Roth.

So, good for you.

Clear.

Objective benefit the beneficiaries tax free to the greatest extent possible.

Is it too late?

Oh, heck no.

Working with a good financial advisor, preferably one that has, within their, service, platform, a good tax advisor as well.

That's, sadly not always the case.

Lots of firms offer no tax advice whatsoever.

But work with a financial advisor where you can do both of those under one roof, and you'll do very, very well.

Meg's one more, please.

Sure thing.

Our last question says my wife and I are in our 70s, and we're doing pretty well.

We have two regular IRAs, two Roths, an annuity, and a brokerage account, all with a financial advisor.

In general.

We are pleased with the results over the years.

I believe that we are aggressive investors for our age.

Income from our investments is not a priority, but we like growth.

I've heard many, many times that diversity is important in a down market.

It can reduce your losses.

I believe this is true and we are diverse.

However, my experience tells me that in an upmarket, diversity prevents you from seeing the full growth of that upmarket.

And my advisor never talks of this.

My portfolio somewhat follows the market indices.

I don't know if I'm saying that right.

But with higher highs, higher lows and lower highs.

So what is the point at the end of each decade, Vanguard S&P funds yield similar results to my managed portfolio without the angst and with much lower fees.

So why not put everything in a Vanguard S&P fund and forget about it?

Thanks.

Forget about it.

You knew that was coming.

You knew that I have no apologies.

Very interesting question.

Very interesting question indeed.

So let's set the stage.

This gentleman comes through our door, says, hey, here's what I've been doing, here's the results.

Why do I not just put it into a Vanguard index and walk away?

The answer is, maybe you should.

Maybe you should.

The description of their, objective seems pretty clear.

They want their money to grow, and they want your money to grow at a pretty substantial rate.

And if if, after careful questioning, they can convince a financial advisor that they are, aware.

They recognize, they know that the stock markets go up and down and that in a down market, we'll go back to 2022.

The market was off over 20%.

In a down market.

Their index is going to drop 20%.

They've got a million bucks.

They're going to lose 200 grand in one year.

And they're okay with that.

Because if they're following the index, they also know that the next year or two, likely as it did 23, 4 or 5, went up, up, up and so no no harm, no foul if their Constitution, their emotional makeup is such that, that simply would not bother them.

I agree.

Goodness it doesn't give you an index.

Will never give you the maximum return.

It will give you the average return of the index.

So when you say you're quite aggressive, you are for perhaps for your age quite aggressive.

But in general you're not.

You mentioned the diversification.

Always being kind of a rule of thumb is a rule of thumb to protect folks against major downturns, against making major mistakes.

If you put all your money into one company, one company, you might do a massively well, or you might be crushed.

You might be bankrupt.

There are major companies that have gone to zero in our area.

There was a time when Bethlehem Steel was considered to be the absolute pinnacle of American capitalism, and Bethlehem Steel is gone and has been for quite some time.

There was a famous company back in the what, the 70s, 80s Enron, theoretically the fifth or sixth largest company in the country, zero zero.

So you could concentrate, lose everything, or make a mint.

So diversification protects us from that.

Risk of concentration, that risk that we've we've we've, bet on one number and it doesn't come up in your case, if your definition of growth is I want to stay pace with the market, I agree, I think you are well guided.

Put it all in the index ride the ups and downs.

Get the growth of the index.

Ups and downs of the index.

And and be happy with that.

By the way, you would be rather unusual.

Most folks would be much happier with higher lows.

Markets down 20.

We're only down five.

I feel so much better and willing to sacrifice some of the ups.

Hey, the market was up 20.

We were up 12, 13.

That's still a wonderful number.

So, as we always say, every answer has to be personal, has to be customized, has to be specific to you.

In your case, I would be, I'd be calling Vanguard and I'd be using the index.

Speaking of calling.

Well, not necessarily calling, but communicating.

Send me your emails.

Continue to allow us to be the most relevant financial show on television by sharing your questions and your concerns.

Send that to me, Jean at ask mtm.com.

Happy to serve you.

We answer every single question back to you, and then we select some of those to air on future shows.

And perhaps one of your questions will appear on a future show.

Thanks for spending part of your evening with us.

You could be anywhere, but you spent it with us.

That honors us, indeed, and hopefully we return that with good service.

And hopefully you've learned enough that you're going to want to return when we're back here next week for another edition of More Than Money connect.